Life In The Wild with Michael Bethany
Inspiring exceptional people to live exceptional lifestyles.
Life In The Wild with Michael Bethany
Ep: 201 | Wildly Devoted | A Wife's Journey Through Life's Untamed Terrain
Welcome to Season 2, Episode 201 of the Life in the Wild Podcast! In this special installment, host Michael Bethany sits down with a remarkable guest - his wife, Chavon. Join them in Part 1 of a two-part series as Chavon opens up about her unique perspective, observing Michael's extraordinary disciplines fueling his exceptional lifestyle.
As a supportive wife in her husband's ministry callings, Chavon shares valuable insights on the importance of wives being rooted in the Word, becoming sources of strength, and offering encouragement. Learn the crucial role of communication, gaining your husband's heart, seeking a vision from God, and maintaining the posture of a servant as a follower of Christ. Chavon emphasizes the need for wise counsel over instinct alone, encouraging wives to speak life, love, and deliverance over their husbands.
Join Michael and Chavon as they reflect on God's mercy and Chavon's role as a means of grace, aiding Michael's maturity and freedom in Christ. This episode is a guide for wives navigating the journey of supporting their husbands' callings with wisdom, love, and divine purpose. Don't miss this insightful conversation on Life in the Wild!
Socials
Instagram: @LifeInTheWildPodcast @MichaelBethanyOfficial
TikTik: @LifeInTheWildPodcast @MichaelBethanyMusic
Overflow Album
Website
Life in the Wild Podcast Episode 1: Travis Greene (Killing Vain Ambition)
MERCH - https://www.lifeinthewildpod.com/
JOIN THE TRIBE - https://www.michaelbethany.com/mentor...
CONNECT WITH MICHAEL
Website: https://www.michaelbethany.com
There are some things I can correct. There are some things wrong about you. There's some wrong things you have done, but the core identity of who God said you are made you to be is still intact. It's in the center of everything that's surrounding it. You're surrounding and wrapped in addiction. You're surrounding and wrapped in guilt and shame and fear and anxiety, but in the core, what God said is still true you are still the call, the chosen and the loved of God. Everything he said about you before he formed you in your mother's womb remains true. What's up, my good people? I am Michael Bethany.
Speaker 1:This is Life in the Wild Wild Podcast, season 2. And listen, I am so excited for this season because we've got some special things planned. I mean, like we've got some special guests. We got some folks, but before I say anything else, I've got a special guest here. Right to my immediate left and on your right is my wife Siobhan. She's with me on this episode, as you can hear the folks in the back. I got Hector here with me. I got my homeboy, rob here with me. So we're hanging out in our home and this Life in the Wild episode is going to be crazy. It's gonna be amazing. I've got the best partner. Yes, she's actually. She shows me up. I ain't gonna even lie Like I'll say a whole bunch of stuff but then she'll just mic drop in one sentence and so just look forward to that.
Speaker 1:But let me just say this that this Life in the Wild podcast is curated for us. What I mean by that is, if you're watching this and this is drawing you in, that's intentional, because God put you on our hearts and there's a number of things that we're doing in 2024. Can you believe it? It's here, and the reason I say can you believe it is because there's a lot of vision that we've been casting for this year, and so I wanna dive into all that. But I'm gonna just hold off for just a minute because this is a special year and the podcast season that you're gonna watch over the next several weeks and really get into this over the next several months is something that's been on our hearts for a while.
Speaker 1:We're kind of shifting gears in some of the ways that we're doing things, because we just have a burden on our hearts for all people married, single, churched, un-churched and, at the same time, me being a creative person, an artist, worship leader, songwriter and all those things, a minister, pastor, preacher, all that stuff. I'm just all mixed up, and that side of me speaks directly to people who have those things in common. I mean not just worship leaders, but artists, creative people, influencers, people who carry something just a little bit different than what other people carry, and I think one of the things about that is when you have something different on you, sometimes you need a word of someone to speak to you in your language, because a lot of the things that are spoken, though they are for everyone, they're not always curated for you. The word doesn't change, but the application can change radically depending on who the person or individual is. So I'm really talking to myself and I'm talking to people like us, people like me and my wife, people who are walking this journey.
Speaker 1:So I wanna invite you guys to this space. I wanna say this before we move further Like share, subscribe. This is what it's all about. I want you guys to enjoy this, but I also want you guys to take a minute to think about someone who needs to be invited to this space, someone who was near and dear and someone who was far in I can't think of a rhyming Somebody who you don't know that much, somebody you don't even like. Just share this, because maybe it'll be the thing that'll make them better, make you like them more. But this is something that is a labor of love, and I can't really even call it a labor. It's a pleasure. It's a privilege, it's an honor and it's a part of our offering to God, serving the kingdom, serving the world, and it's part of our worship. So we're excited to do it. So today I've got my wife here with me in her what is it? Strawberry.
Speaker 1:Strawberry shortcake Strawberry shortcake.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm an 80s baby.
Speaker 1:What is strawberry shortcake? The? Best cartoon from the 80s? I still don't know. She's a cartoon character? I still don't know. I have no idea and I had the doll. Oh, you did.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:When did you get that? Did you buy it?
Speaker 2:I was a kid.
Speaker 1:My mama got it no when did you get that short? I don't remember.
Speaker 2:No, I saw it in the store. I had to get it.
Speaker 1:She goes to the store. She also brings the store to us through Amazon. We got. Amazon loves this house. That's true, I know what y'all are, but they love my wife.
Speaker 1:But so we're here, and so right now, let me just start with this. I'm gonna be talking about this over the course of this season. This is what I'm excited about. So Life in the Wild podcast is not just a podcast, it's a life theme. It's exceptional people with exceptional callings living an exceptional lifestyle. And it's not just a podcast, it's not a show, it's a way of life, and it's also going to be present in a book that I'm writing as we speak which that in and of itself, is crazy that I'm writing a book and my wife and I started out in this journey, and there have been several books that I have started, and every time I started writing a book, I realized, well, I had a fundamental flaw, I had something to say, but I had no confidence in my ability to express that through writing.
Speaker 1:You know, you're an avid reader. I'm a reader I wouldn't put an adjective in front of mine but I do read, but I'm not a writer. Well, let me say this that's not true. Let me rephrase that. You're right, Okay. So let me just say like this the Lord has blessed me with the gift of communication. Yes, I took that as oral communication. That means I talk. So if I'm going to be at my best, I got to be moving my lips. And then recently the Lord helped me to understand is like no, no, you're not just an oral communicator, you're a communicator and you just have not applied that through the investment of writing and that skill and that discipline. So I have embraced that and I'm like okay, this is my mountain. Your wife has the phrase the audacious, or what is it the thing? The experiment, oh, the the day of experimenting.
Speaker 2:Oh God, Katrina forgives you in advance, Rob.
Speaker 1:Rob is sorry.
Speaker 2:She forgives you.
Speaker 1:The experiment is not the ambition experiment, the ambition experiment. So that's just something you hear about later. My friend Rob's wife is working on this whole ambition experiment project. Well, for me this year it became you're gonna write, and so I have been writing now for the last. Well, it's been longer than two weeks. I started working on this late may fall Last year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, October actually October I actually started. We took a class together on writing books and I had I was like, okay, I'd identified that life in the wild would be the book that I would start working on first and I took some time in the month of October to line out what I would be, you know, communicating in this written work and lined out about 10 chapters, and over the last two weeks I have been writing every day.
Speaker 1:So you let them know like what this has been like, cause you have not seen me as a writer. You've been reading and reviewing every chapter. You haven't read the last two. I'm on chapter seven as of today this podcast. By the time you guys see this podcast, the book will be long finished, but as of today, I'm in chapter seven.
Speaker 1:So Tell me what your thoughts are, because you're watching my wilderness journey unfold, not just in the past but right now, like me, embracing the prescribed pattern for life that God has for me. And I really want to make sure I define that, because some of you guys have not heard me talk about Life in the wild or the wilderness and what that means. The long and short of it is. The Wilderness is the place that John the Baptist moved into Until his ministry started. Not only did he move into the wilderness until it started, he remained in the wilderness for the majority of his life to fulfill the ministry that he begun in that place. That wilderness represents a location that's not just best for you to prepare for ministry, but also sustain your ministry. This is how we understand how God measured success. He measured success by obedience and because John the Baptist moved into this place, changed his whole life. He not only had a radical calling or, what I said, an exceptional calling. He matched that exceptional calling with an exceptional lifestyle. This is how you get the end product of Jesus saying that John the Baptist is the greatest man alive to date, the greatest prophet who ever lived. It's not just because he had a promised is a promise, it's because of the way he Responded to it and that that model he lived, that is a is a model for us to embrace, and so all the things that are unique about your life.
Speaker 1:You ask God, why do I have to live this way? Why? Why are these sets of circumstances? Why do they have? Why does it have to be my, my surrounding, my environment? Oh, why do you require things of me that you don't require of other people? Mm-hmm, see that, see it. Perhaps it could be that what you're living, it is God's prescribed Environment for your organic growth. The word wilderness, root word is wild. That word wild simply means organic. It means a place where everything that grows it grows and flourishes without the assistance or aid of human Help or support.
Speaker 1:Yeah that means it's growing according to God's intention. I Just said a whole lot because a lot of us want to help God grow us when God is saying no, if you stay where I planted you, the environment that I've set for you, that will grow you. Even if there are things in environment that you don't like, you'll, you'll find that it's best to grow in a place that you don't like, then to disobey God or remove yourself from the place that you can actually grow. Yeah, so in that, in that whole, solitically, solitically, I just, I, just, you know, spilled. I Am walking through a wilderness process and have been for a long time Embracing and it's better when you embrace it, mm-hmm. And even in this current season of writing this book, having to embrace this is what God wants me to do. It may not be what I wanted to do or what other people are doing and finding what I think they're experiencing. Success in this is for me. Now you're watching that. I'm done talking you, you you give me what you think about it. What's up? Folks? So Overflow, live my goodness that that album was a blessing to me and I believe it's been a blessing to a lot of folks. I hope, hope, you've been blessed by the album and I want to show y'all something we got here. This right.
Speaker 1:Here is the the. This is my first piece of of a peril merch and it's the over full live album t-shirt and on the back you can see it has all the songs kind of assorted On the shirt. So, listen, we've got. We got merch y'all. We have merch officially and a whole lot more coming and I can't wait to release it. I want you guys to not only sing about it, but I want you to be about it. Get you some of this merch. I'll let you boy. There's a link below. You guys can get whatever you want. No, you can't, you can just get this, okay.
Speaker 2:Peace, it meaning.
Speaker 1:This whole process of my wilderness, right now, in this season, right in this book, what you're reading, I'm, I think I'm, I'm being pretty vulnerable. You might push, push me to say more in the book, mm-hmm. But what look writing process the book writing process, the wilderness process. What does that? How does that? How does that look from your perspective, having Known me since I was 19 years old?
Speaker 2:to me it looks like every other situation that you decided to build a discipline in, whether that was when you decided you wanted to learn to play the organ. You were singing and you want to learn how to play the organ, and I saw you tackle that. I saw you tackle your weight loss, the discipline of getting up early to pray, and so I don't know if any of you guys have ever heard of this concept of habit stacking, but the benefit of habit stacking is you get to Actually leverage the momentum you've gotten from other good habits to not create additional good habits. So I'm seeing you leverage the habit of getting up early, having that quiet time, and now you are. You're getting up early, and now you are using that to in addition to prayer, now you're writing, and so I'm very proud of you. You know very excited about that.
Speaker 1:I told y'all, steve, I've been talking for 11 minutes. She just took me out and less than one. That's great, thank you, okay. Okay, can we just stop for a minute and talk about this habit stacking thing?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's been In Since 2017 that I've been consistently waking up before 6 am.
Speaker 2:To pray.
Speaker 1:Honestly. It okay in 2017 is when I, when I got the conviction to do this, it was just simple math the way I was spending my time. The math wasn't math in. There was no way I was gonna spend time with God unless I got up earlier. So I started getting up in increments of 15 minutes earlier and earlier, week by week, until I got to you know when my goal, my goal, was at the time.
Speaker 1:So it's been all that time that I've been doing it, but I never thought about the. I just thought, okay, god wants me to get up this early because he wants to spend time with me, he wants me to read the word, he wants me to grow within the context of intimacy with him. I didn't think about not only do I want you to be intimate with me, but the kind of person that will have the capacity to write that book you're gonna write has to be the same person who can discipline themselves to wake up at five, five-thirty in the morning. I never even thought about that. I'm stacking. Yeah, that's crazy. Where'd you get that from? I think we read the same book. We read the same book. We yeah, okay, let's give a shout out.
Speaker 1:What's the name of the book?
Speaker 2:I believe it's high performance habits in my brand of Bouchard.
Speaker 1:I think you're right. And so we first of all Siobhan and I we read during the pandemic. I became more of a reader than I ever was and a listener. Because I did both. I would actually get the audio, we would share the audio and I'll get the kindle and I'd be like reading along like a kid. I look like it's a. What is that all about? I need someone to read to me while I read to myself.
Speaker 2:Whatever works.
Speaker 1:It works. For me, it was like I was going through all my senses. Everything was alive, and so that was one of the books that we read. I just love that you just called that out. I think that's a really encouraging thing, that that thing that God is challenging you to do right now is actually the foundation, or a stacking, a habit that you're going to stack something else on top of, and if you don't master this, you won't be ready for what's coming next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. Anyway, continue. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:And then just seeing how you normally communicate verbally coming out on paper, that's pretty cool. You know, from what I'm reading, I'm really excited just about the process. And there, you know, I managed a ministry email, so I just get my heart goes out every time someone asks questions or they reach out for a helper, mentorship, and I know you can't physically be there. So I'm excited about the possibility of having something that we can give to folks or that folks can tap into.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Even if you're not there with them at the time. So I'm excited.
Speaker 1:So this has been a long journey. I don't look physically like I looked when we met. I look a lot better, I mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, you were cute, cute back then too.
Speaker 1:Definitely I was. Well, yeah, thank you, appreciate that you look cute, thank you.
Speaker 1:What we doing right now. Well, time out Okay, so we, but you know that's like a lot has changed. Yeah, okay. So you saw me fighting it though, like, do you like? Do you recall what it looked like when I refused to accept the path that God called me to really live? And having this tension, in this juxtaposition between an obvious calling and talent, natural abilities, even spiritual giftings that God has given, and then a total resistance to the lifestyle that will require the flourishing and maturation of what that needed to become yeah.
Speaker 2:So what I would say to women out there that are supporting a man in process, a man under construction, which we never leave. Being in that season, the wilderness, is a lifestyle right, but if you're new in that process, I think it's important to have a vision from God independently for your husband as a man in general and as a man specifically. Yeah, okay, what I mean when I say that is it's important for that woman to be grounded in what the word of God says, that her husband is.
Speaker 1:Preach, please. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Because there will not if, but if he's in the process of development, it's a very emotionally and mentally, and sometimes physically volatile time, you know, in that man's life, depending on what stage of development he's in. And so having someone close to him that can speak to him what God says about him can mean the difference between life or death, not necessarily physically, but life or death to his purpose, life or death to his future. You know, vision and calling Okay. So that's something that everyone can do and that's not hard to do. Ladies, you can pick your word up today.
Speaker 1:Well, the Bible near is to you, it's on your phone.
Speaker 2:It's right here. It's as quick as picking it up, but just invest in that time to get that vision. The second part to me, which is, I think, the most difficult and, rob, if you can, there's a book that's behind you on that shelf is called the Masculine Journey.
Speaker 1:You better be prepared for this podcast. You better prepare.
Speaker 2:You know how I am, I know, but anyway get a vision.
Speaker 1:No one just has these books lying around, and we have several of them. This one isn't even unwrapped, but I love my books.
Speaker 2:My books are my friends. Well, I actually ordered a whole bunch of these, but anyway, we gotta start reselling them actually Exactly To women actually Looks like that's hilarious, okay, so there's a general purpose for every man, every husband, and then there's a specific purpose and vision for your husband, and the beautiful thing and I know, mike, you can speak into this as well is that vision isn't something that you create, but it's discovered.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:Okay so.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna have to unpack that. Okay, this is you. Just you, mess it with my book.
Speaker 1:Now you mess it with the book. Well, this is here's the thing. Whenever purpose God has for you, you don't need to go search for it. That's right, you don't need to go find it. God will always reveal his will. Yes, he will. If you can't find God, God will find you. And when it comes to what God wants for you, god reveals it. The challenge we have is not attaining what God wants to reveal, it's pursuing the God who will reveal it.
Speaker 2:That's it.
Speaker 1:The integrity that it takes to be committed to God is what establishes the intimacy within which that vision, that purpose and that calling is made clear. And within a marriage, I can never know what's in your heart If I don't develop a relationship of intimacy that allows you to entrust me with the secrets of your heart. I don't believe that it's as difficult to know what God's purpose is as it is to actually acclimate to what it is. Those are two different things. Knowing what God wants some of us really know what it is, we just don't like it. Some of us know what it is but we're overlooking it.
Speaker 1:A relationship will make whatever you don't like, or maybe you don't agree with, or maybe it's unclear. It will focus that. What won't make anything easier is your tendency or propensity to run from what God is asking you to do, because obedience is the target, right? Not the will of God, not the purpose that God wants you to do. It is the relationship that's made possible through obedience, and that's what it's all about. So that's what you're talking about. Just a little teaser from the book. As you said, god reveals purpose.
Speaker 2:So, speaking on what you just said, it's a process and it's revealed in stages, but what a wife, what a sorry, what a wise wife can do.
Speaker 1:Well, Nice correction there.
Speaker 2:It's not every wife.
Speaker 1:Keep those coming, if you wouldn't mind. I'd just, I'd like to put it in there.
Speaker 2:A wise woman can help her husband to verbalize and receive that sooner rather than later. When you were talking, scripture Proverbs 20 and 5 came to mind, and it's the purpose of a man's heart is like deep water, but a man or woman of understanding will draw it out.
Speaker 1:Read it one more time please, if you wouldn't mind.
Speaker 2:The purpose of a man's heart is like deep water, but a man or woman of understanding will draw it out.
Speaker 1:Okay, one second. This is for Rob Read.
Speaker 2:It's the code. You come back.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. I said read it. Just I just got teleported back to the 80s For some reason. Preachers didn't read. Then the wives read for them, Read. And that's how you say read. So I'm gonna stop. I love okay, continue, because I'm gonna mess this whole thing up.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. You're good. So talking to your husband, gaining his trust, setting up an environment for growth where he can be comfortable, where he can trust you with his heart.
Speaker 1:See what you're saying to me it does not sound like stuff I hear online, like I hear so much about what women are not capable of. In the same way, I hear about all the things that men are capable of. You've got toxic masculinity. And then what do they say about women? It's like you know not much, not nothing good it's like it's. A lot of people start to believe that modern women oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Right yeah we hear about a lot of toxic, so that's the toxic.
Speaker 1:It's the same thing, I guess, in either direction.
Speaker 2:And now you're saying and modern women, that whole thing.
Speaker 1:And you're saying something as if you have hope that any woman, even the modern woman, can do this, and I think anybody who's married and in relationship with someone you want to spend your life with would want their woman, would want that man to be everything God intends him to be the best part of himself versus best version of himself.
Speaker 2:Well, here's the challenge, though, and when we're talking about getting a vision from God about your husband, what you'll find is, if you start searching for that, you'll realize that your position in your heart has to be the heart of wanting to serve. Serve God, serve your family, serve your husband, because in the kingdom of God, the greatest is a servant. So I would love to say that a wise woman develops all these characteristics only on the behalf of her husband, but in her heart she knows that God is a rewarder. God has some amazing treasures and things locked up and stored up for them that their servant's heart will unlock.
Speaker 1:Would you quote the where you found that verse? Proverbs.
Speaker 2:Proverbs 20 and 5.
Speaker 1:See, this is what you just said. Okay, though, good advice lies deep within the heart, a person with understanding will draw it out. And as you apply that to walking with someone else's purpose wilderness journey and serving them, seeing the best in them, seeing what lies deep within that person, which is something good, everyone has value.
Speaker 2:everyone has purpose God has dealt to every man.
Speaker 1:Everyone has greatness inside of them, absolutely because we are the Imago dei, the image of God. So there's nothing wrong intrinsically wrong with you.
Speaker 1:No, you may be contaminated or perverted but the way God intended you to be is perfectly fine. That's it. That's not a gender thing. No, that's not a woman's role to find what's good in a man, or just a man's role to find the good thing in a woman and then draw that thing out. But that is something that we both get to do with each other, and I know you're walking through these phases of a man. I don't want you to lose track with that. But when you say this, what that makes me think about is, while you're trying to help me and while you're trying to draw the best out of me, while I'm going through my process simultaneously, I'm trying to do the same thing. I'm trying to not be the reason. You are the worst version of yourself. Like we're caught into a covenant where God, supernaturally and by His grace, works through the covenant.
Speaker 2:But sometimes we take turns Because I can remember, for instance, when I first had Isaiah, I was in hospital, incredibly sick, a new mother, hormonal, all those horrible things. It was your turn, babe, to help, support me and to bring the best out of me, so it may not always be simultaneous.
Speaker 1:It's real talk.
Speaker 2:You know that we're both doing that. But the process of having a servant's heart means that you're growing in character. You're gaining the jewels as a person. Now you're personally also able to benefit from what you say all the time when you go through a rough season. If you say faithful to God and to your assignment, you keep what you grow. You know, and so, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:I love it, so back to your original point. Okay, the stages of a man.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so anyway. So that's one part of it is just, you know, what is he passionate about, what are his talents, what are his gifts, what are his spoken and unspoken needs and desires, what are things that happened to him as a child that he's always wanted to do, that he never felt anyone believed in him, in being able to do as a wife, as a woman, draw those things out and support them. But the other part of it is well, let me, let me just say this as a woman, I want us to understand that we can always trust our instincts, but not our judgment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you need to slow down because you bought to make us go viral. I don't know if it's good or bad, but so I can explain. Say that again and maybe rephrase it. What do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:What I mean when I say is a woman has very powerful you guys have heard of that a woman's intuition. Yes, okay, it's powerful, it's real and it's a great alarm system to say, hey, something here is wrong, hey, something here is off, hey, we shouldn't go this way. But how you respond to what you do you perceive? Yes, yes, can be corrupted based on your perception.
Speaker 2:Your hurts, your hurts so the reason I'm mentioning that is another key thing that a woman has to equip herself with is the council of others, the wise council of others, and I'm going to give an example. So when you were going through the worst of what you were going through, it was not easy, it was difficult, and I had a lot of instincts like what in the world I am, I'm going to get out of here, I'm on a run for the hills, or you know, just confusing all of that.
Speaker 1:How long did it take for you to feel like that?
Speaker 2:It was a while Okay.
Speaker 1:Wasn't like the first year. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:It was a while, and you know we've talked about our story. And this is one thing piled on top of a thing, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But anyway, but what really really helped me is seeking the wisdom of other people outside of myself. One of those people was my father. So if you have another mature man in your family or in your life that can help counsel you, that's great. But hey, let's you say hey, I don't have a good father, I don't have a great uncle, I don't have a big brother, which a lot of women don't. Books are your friends, ladies. Books are your friends. You can, you know, take advantage of the wisdom of other people without having necessarily Safe people in your life at the time. So, yeah, I want to bring up this book, because this book is called the masculine journey. And what this book and it's by Robert Hicks, okay. So, ladies, if you have a husband in development, god get one day.
Speaker 2:Because what this book did is it helped me to realize that there are four stages that every man goes through in life. Okay, and what it did is based on my husband's characteristics at the time. It helped me to track him like a GPS and say, oh, he's at this part of his journey, but guess what, by the grace of God and, you know, by the power of the Holy Spirit, if he continues to grow. He's going to be in another stage, so it gave me hope. Yeah, by someone on the outside. Let me know, sis, the things that he's experiencing. It's natural at his stage. Yeah, and he won't always be at this stage.
Speaker 1:I love that and I love that book.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:I remember first reading it I was in my early 20s and we did a men's retreat yeah and Pastor Phillips at the time.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, power change he brought that book and you got these four stages. It's a phallic man, then you have the warrior, then you have the wounded man and then you have the sage man. And the phallic man is the adolescents. Who's discovering themselves, the the. The warrior is when you get to the time of your life where you should know who you are and have mastered your sexual integrity. So now you can use that energy and passion to fight Mm-hmm. But after you've been fighting for a while in a warrior stage, you, you, you incur some wounds, you become the wounded man, mm-hmm. And that wounded man now has to address some of the things you've gone through as you were fighting and winning and dominating.
Speaker 1:Conquering yeah, it's good, and once you've learned From all those three stages and you've healed, you become the sage man and now you're ready to turn and share and spend your life Discipling and mentoring and helping other young men. Yeah, navigate those stages Listen so good that I learned that in my early 20s and A few years back I don't, maybe five or six years, I can't, I can't remember. Now I just started buying those books again.
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 1:Don't know when you got a hold of it because, look at, the book isn't written for women.
Speaker 2:It's weird, it's. Yeah, maybe it is.
Speaker 1:Maybe it is. You says you said something that I love. You may not know a person you can talk to, but somebody who knows the answer to what you need answered has written about it.
Speaker 1:That's it, I don't need to know you personally. If I can know your thoughts, yeah, that's it, and I can search through some books and and that's one of the reasons I Love the fact that I bought that book for me, mm-hmm. But you had questions and you grabbed the same book and you got answers that were very different from my yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, can we just dive a little bit deeper? Mm-hmm, how did that book help you personally with me, like, how did that change your attitude? How did that change your perspective? This is, this is a book club now.
Speaker 2:Oh, how did that?
Speaker 1:change your approach okay, so, and I got a book too I could talk about, to help me with her, from Larry Titus that the Telly house is a book written to men, the complete man is the owner know what a grab it.
Speaker 2:But oh, it's written.
Speaker 1:But in that book. He helped me see my wife as God sees me, which is powerful. But what did that do for you in your perspective of where I am and how you responded?
Speaker 2:Okay, first of all and this may or may not get me in trouble, but yeah, you know it.
Speaker 1:We in the wild, life in the wild.
Speaker 2:First of all, it helped me to realize just the effect that other men can have on each other, because just because a man is older and age, it doesn't mean he's Gotten out of his phallic state.
Speaker 1:Well, okay, stop, stop. They don't know what we're talking about. Okay.
Speaker 2:They don't know we're talking about.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, let me just. Let me just talk to the fellas For a minute. The phallic stage. Okay, let me make it real clear to you. When I was a little boy, I Was enough, I was coming into my phallic season and my mother had these magazines coming to the house back in the day when magazines existed Mm-hmm, I haven't seen a magazine anywhere Recently, but these magazines were coming to house and I didn't know what that was. I look, I started looking at that magazine. I was like I think I'll keep this.
Speaker 1:I think I'll take this with me. I'm just read through the articles. This is fat and that was, but that was a sure sign I was entering, yes, my phallic stage. Yes, I was becoming aware of my manhood, and one of the first signs that you are aware of your Manhood is becoming aware of your sexuality.
Speaker 2:So so reading the book helped me realize that's actually a healthy and a and a normal part say it to the, say it for the people in the back. Well, I want to say it for moms that have Teenagers and young boys and you're raising boys and this is not. It's not. It's not dirty, it's not bad. God made that. Now what?
Speaker 1:she. Let me just say this what she's not saying that we're endorsing. Looking at illicit no, material no she's saying that his Awareness, yes, of his sexuality, which is sometimes unearthed or discovered, right in ways like that right. It ain't of itself that there's nothing wrong with that right.
Speaker 1:And why that's so important is because the first time somebody saw me Expressing or demonstrating some sexual awareness, it was a slap on the hand bad as opposed to a correction, of course, and an affirmation of identity. Right, there's nothing wrong with you, as a matter of fact, if I let me just say this, and please don't lose your spot because I've but I've got to say this here Because we might run out of time. I don't want to miss the opportunity to speak to someone who's struggling with a fall at like condition.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of the things that set me free From an addiction to pornography. It was the Holy Spirit helping me to say to myself Michael, there's nothing wrong with you, that's so good. It was like someone's sitting me down and say okay, calm down, yeah, breathe.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong with you, because and that's going to make this is this, is this is emotional, because I thought that, because I had this bad habit, that there was something intrinsically wrong with me, and let me tell you how powerful a thought like that is. That is not of God. The addiction is one thing, but an accusation is another. The enemy will use an addiction to give you the wrong definition about your identity. So now, not only is pornography bad, you're bad.
Speaker 1:And because you're bad. Here's the cycle. You might as well keep on going, because shame does not help you feel better. It gives you no integrity. Having shame only gives, it only depletes you of any reasons justifiable reasons to do anything better than what you're in right now, because shame says you're not even worth better. If you can muster up the strength to do better because you jacked up, you're a bad person. You don't have what it takes to be. Forget about the promises of God. Forget about that. You'll never do it anyway. You might as well keep on down the road you're headed because it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:That is the lie of the enemy, and the answer God gave me is look at yourself and say what I say when I see you, michael, there's never wrong with you. There's some things I can correct. There are some things wrong about you. There's some wrong things you have done, but the core identity of who God said you are made you to be is still intact. It's in the center of everything that's surrounding it. You're surrounding and wrapped in addiction. You're surrounding and wrapped in guilt and shame and fear and anxiety, but in the core, what God said is still true you are still the call, the chosen and the loved of God. Everything he said about you before he formed you in your mother's womb remains true right in the room where you're sitting watching this. That changed my life, and I love the fact that you're telling women to take that very same revelation and truth for their sons and for the husbands.
Speaker 2:Because the Bible says that a man can walk in sexual integrity.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Now, we know no one's perfect, we know everyone has struggles, but the Bible says that a man can walk in sexual integrity. So, ladies, don't believe what the world says about your husband, don't believe what social media says about men and I'm going to maybe get in trouble here, but especially my I like the trouble you get us in.
Speaker 1:I really do.
Speaker 2:Especially my minority and my African American brothers and sisters. There ain't no good black men. There ain't no good men in general. If you're not a man, it's a lie from the pit of hell and you rebuke it, ladies, and you speak life, you speak deliverance, you speak health over your husband.
Speaker 1:I just need a minute, man.
Speaker 2:It's the word.
Speaker 1:So I think for a minute, wait a minute. I said I need a minute. Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:Why am I so emotional?
Speaker 1:This thing has hit me for real. This is not a podcast episode. Y'all. This is my life, this was our journey, this is where we live. This was the tears are real, the pain was real and the freedom it's real. The healing is real.
Speaker 1:I could have been a statistic. We all have everything it takes to be one, but to break the world's framework and ideology around what men are and to live in freedom, I hear people saying all the time things about me and I'm like, okay, I mean I appreciate it and then now I'll get asked. Invariably, rob, I'll get asked so why are you so humble? Like well, I know the story, like I really know how this whole thing came together. It's like I'm keenly aware of the journey I've been on and I know God's mercy and I know His grace. I know the things that only by the mercy of God even consequences I deserve that were withheld. That's mercy. Yeah, I earned every bit of that demise and the mercy of God covered me. But then I also know that while mercy was working, so was grace. Mercy covered me long enough for grace to supernaturally transform my heart to be something different. Listen, I love mercy, but you need mercy and grace. Grace says mercy is the reason that God preserved you, but grace is the reason you don't have to be a statistic. Grace is God's divine power to transform your heart and you may be with somebody.
Speaker 1:There's a whole lot of talk about all sorts of labels and diagnoses on folks, but I know a power that I've personally encountered, which is the grace of God. That changed me for good and it's still transforming me right now, literally while I'm sitting in this seat. Grace is working. I don't even know when it worked, I don't even know when it clicked, I don't know when the ideas in my mind shifted, but mercy held onto me so that grace could work on me. Glory Jesus. Thank you Jesus. Thank you God. Thank you Jesus. Thank you Jesus. Thank you God.